Legislature(2011 - 2012)CAPITOL 17

02/21/2012 01:00 PM House TRANSPORTATION


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
*+ HB 271 COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLE REQUIREMENTS TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 271(TRA) Out of Committee
*+ HB 258 NATURALLY OCCURRING ASBESTOS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
*+ HB 270 WARNING OF AIRPORT EXAMS/SCANS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
              HB 258-NATURALLY OCCURRING ASBESTOS                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:38:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR P.  WLSON announced that  the next order of  business would                                                               
be  HOUSE BILL  NO.  258,  "An Act  directing  the Department  of                                                               
Transportation  and Public  Facilities to  develop and  implement                                                               
standards and  operating procedures allowing  for the use  in the                                                               
construction  and  maintenance  of  transportation  projects  and                                                               
public facilities and  in the construction of  projects by public                                                               
and  private  entities  of gravel  or  aggregate  materials  that                                                               
contain  a limited  amount of  naturally occurring  asbestos, and                                                               
authorizing  use  on an  interim  basis  of those  materials  for                                                               
certain transportation  projects and public  facilities; relating                                                               
to certain  claims arising out of  or in connection with  the use                                                               
of gravel or  aggregate materials containing a  limited amount of                                                               
naturally  occurring asbestos;  and  providing  for an  effective                                                               
date."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MUNOZ  made  a   motion  to  adopt  the  proposed                                                               
committee  substitute  (CS)  for  HB  258,  Version  27-LS0400\E,                                                               
Nauman, 2/19/12, as the work draft.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG objected for purpose of discussion.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:39:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  REGGIE JOULE,  Alaska  State Legislature,  stated                                                               
that  naturally  occurring asbestos  (NOA)  is  found in  several                                                               
areas of the  state.  He related that while  ways to mitigate the                                                               
problems exist,  NOA has  been a recurring  problem in  the upper                                                               
Kobuk communities of  Ambler and Kobuk.  He referred  to a notice                                                               
in  committee   members'  packets   from  the   Federal  Aviation                                                               
Administration,  Airports Division,  Alaska  region (FAA),  dated                                                               
August, 15,  2011.   A sentence under  an Ambler  airport project                                                               
read,  as follows,  "Project delayed  until  a suitable  material                                                               
source can be found that does  not contain asbestos."  The letter                                                               
refers to the  Ambler Airport, and the communities  have not been                                                               
able to  "turn a shovel"  on capital projects for  several years.                                                               
He  explained that  a  draft  bill sought  to  rectify this,  but                                                               
unfortunately  the   issues  were  not  resolved.     He  further                                                               
explained that  he has worked  with DOT&PF and  Legislative Legal                                                               
in hopes to remedy the situation.   He highlighted that some land                                                               
ownership issues make this problem  unique, but the issue is that                                                               
asbestos is  found in its  naturally occurring state and  dust is                                                               
kicked  up every  time  an airplane  lands or  takes  off.   Thus                                                               
communities  cannot fix  water and  sewer systems,  build housing                                                               
projects, remedy  school playground issues, repair  a bridge that                                                               
is  close  to  collapse,  or repair  their  airport.    Normally,                                                               
obtaining  capital projects  for the  community means  people can                                                               
work and provide  for their families, which has not  has not been                                                               
the case in Ambler.   Additionally, a school construction project                                                               
in Kobuk  has been  hampered.   He concluded  that he  has worked                                                               
with the administration  to find remedies for the  issue of using                                                               
NOA.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:43:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR P. WILSON asked whether  the NOA is causing health problems                                                               
in the community.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOULE  answered  he  was unaware  of  any  health                                                               
related  impacts that  have occurred.   He  recalled some  people                                                               
were  surveyed  several  years  ago.   He  further  recalled  the                                                               
results were  "fairly clean" except  for people with  issues such                                                               
as  tobacco  use.     He  indicated  that  NOA   use  has  become                                                               
problematic in terms of how it is regulated by the state.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:44:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  stated that this  bill does not  have a                                                               
further referral to  the House Judiciary Standing  Committee.  He                                                               
said  the bill  contains extensive  tort immunity  sections.   He                                                               
expressed concern that  the immunity granted may  be broader than                                                               
necessary.   He recalled a  case in which  a man lost  his thumb.                                                               
He referred  generally to page 3,  line 15, through page  4, line                                                               
11, to Section 2.  He  then referred more specifically to page 3,                                                               
line  27, and  read, "for  an act  or omission  occurring in  the                                                               
course   of  extracting,   supplying,   transporting,  or   using                                                               
gravel..."  He  related a scenario in which a  person employed by                                                               
a trucking company  drives drunk and hits someone.   He expressed                                                               
concern that this language may immunize  the driver.  He asked to                                                               
consider this matter further.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOULE offered  his belief  this specific  section                                                               
has been thoroughly reviewed.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:47:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  removed his  objection.  Version  E was                                                               
before the committee.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:47:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BRODIE  ANDERSON,  Staff,  Representative  Reggie  Joule,  Alaska                                                               
State Legislature, introduced himself.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
EMILY  NAUMAN, Attorney,  Legislative Legal  Counsel, Legislative                                                               
Legal and Research Services, introduced herself.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:48:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  asked  for  details  on  the  immunity                                                               
section and expressed his concerned  about potential overreach of                                                               
immunity.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  NAUMAN  offered  a sectional  analysis  and  explained  that                                                               
Section 1 of  the bill contains legislative  findings and purpose                                                               
statements to explain and support the measure.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. NAUMAN  related that Section  2 of the bill  creates immunity                                                               
sections that Representative Gruenberg previously mentioned                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:50:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG asked  for  further  discussion on  the                                                               
immunity section.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS.  NAUMAN   explained  that  the  immunity   section  basically                                                               
forecloses a suit  against a defendant on the  basis of ownership                                                               
of  land   or  in   the  course   of  extracting   or  supplying,                                                               
transporting  or   using  gravel  or  other   aggregate  material                                                               
containing NOA  less than .025  percent as long as  those actions                                                               
or omissions  are within  the requirements  of AS  18.31.250, the                                                               
section  for  private  contractors, and  AS  44.42.410(b),  which                                                               
pertains to the requirements for public construction.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG offered  to  reserve  his questions  on                                                               
immunity.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:51:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. NAUMAN  referred to subsection  (c), which would  foreclose a                                                               
suit against  the state  in the course  of approving  or creating                                                               
the monitoring and mitigating plan developed under this bill.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:52:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG referred  to page 4, line  4, of Version                                                               
E, to subsection (b).  He  said the key phrase is "direct control                                                               
or responsibility."   He commented that this would  seem to limit                                                               
possible defendants.  He asked  for clarification of who would be                                                               
the  possible defendants  with direct  control and  those without                                                               
direct control.  He further asked  which class of people would be                                                               
eliminated by the  term "direct control."  He recalled  a bill he                                                               
currently has before the legislature  that pertains to anti-trust                                                               
and to those  directly and indirectly damaged.   He characterized                                                               
this area  as a big issue.   He explained that  his bill pertains                                                               
to  classes of  plaintiffs while  HB 258  pertains to  classes of                                                               
defendants.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  NAUMAN answered  that subsection  (b) describes  who can  be                                                               
sued over non-compliance  of land for both the site  use plan and                                                               
the monitoring  mitigation plans.   She said  a suit can  only be                                                               
brought for noncompliance against  essentially the person who has                                                               
primary   control  over   that   plan  and   some  control   over                                                               
construction site.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:54:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ANDERSON explained  that the  site-specific plan  identifies                                                               
actions from  the extraction to  the construction plan,  chain of                                                               
the   construction    project   and   applies    to   extractors,                                                               
transporters, drivers, and construction  workers for the project.                                                               
This subsection was  developed in order to  preserve immunity for                                                               
extractors and  transporters who performed adequately,  even when                                                               
a construction contractor  did not.  Thus, if he  is correct, the                                                               
immunity would  not apply to  anyone in noncompliance,  or anyone                                                               
who doesn't follow the rules.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. NAUMAN agreed.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:55:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG related  a  scenario  in which  someone                                                               
knowingly and  recklessly is aware  that the rules are  not being                                                               
followed,  which  creates a  hazardous  condition  and causes  an                                                               
injury.   He questioned  whether the  specific person,  who would                                                               
normally quite culpable, is also being immunized.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS.  NAUMAN  related her  understanding  that  is how  this  bill                                                               
functions.   She  explained the  person held  responsible is  the                                                               
person who  has responsibility  over the  compliance requirements                                                               
set out in the permitting sections of the bill.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  related   his  understanding  that  AS                                                               
18.31.250 and  AS 44.42.410(b)  pertains to  permitting statutes.                                                               
He referred to  page 3, lines 27-28, "...occurring  in the course                                                               
of extracting,  supplying, transporting, or using  gravel..."  He                                                               
related  a scenario  in  which  someone negligently  manufactures                                                               
earth   moving  equipment   without  providing   adequate  safety                                                               
mechanisms  so subsequently  someone is  injured.   He questioned                                                               
whether  this  provision  would  also  immunize  the  caterpillar                                                               
company or the company that manufactured the equipment.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. NAUMAN said  her interpretation is different.   She explained                                                               
that  an  act  or  omission   must  be  in  compliance  with  the                                                               
permitting requirements.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  pointed out his scenario,  assumes that                                                               
the permitting was done properly,  but the earth moving equipment                                                               
had  a bolt  loose and  someone lost  his/her hand.   He  said it                                                               
seemed  that  this  provision  would  provide  immunity  even  if                                                               
everyone operated  in good faith.   He further asked  whether the                                                               
language would also provide immunity to the manufacturer.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  NAUMAN said  she does  not  believe that  immunity would  be                                                               
extended in that  circumstance because the action must  be an act                                                               
or  omission   in  compliance  with   the  requirements   of  the                                                               
permitting section.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG offered to  hold further questions until                                                               
those sections were covered.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:59:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  NAUMAN turned  to the  sectional analysis  and related  that                                                               
Section 3 adds AS 18.31.250 to  describe how a private person may                                                               
qualify for immunity through the permitting requirement.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. NAUMAN  stated that Section  4 adds  many new sections  to AS                                                               
44.42.400, which is the DOT&PF section.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ANDERSON  remarked that  the  sponsor  has worked  with  the                                                               
administration  and in  doing so  has  strengthened the  proposed                                                               
program.   Initially, the program  was open-ended and  would have                                                               
required each region to create its  own program.  This bill would                                                               
create  one position  in the  DOT&PF  Commissioner's office  that                                                               
will perform  preliminary work, create  a database for  known NOA                                                               
sites, and  identify gravel  near NOA sites.   He  commented that                                                               
the NOA  sites could  include communities  such as  Juneau, which                                                               
has many sources of clean gravel, but also has NOA.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. ANDERSON  explained the process,  including that  posting the                                                               
NOA  sites in  the database  allows  the DOT&PF  to identify  NOA                                                               
sites  for planning  purposes, and  would anticipate  projects in                                                               
those  regions to  allow communities  to stockpile  clean gravel.                                                               
The   sites  would   be  published   on  the   DOT&PF's  website.                                                               
Additionally,  the DOT&PF  would work  in conjunction  with other                                                               
departments to cover  any human health concerns.   He related the                                                               
administration  suggested   this  approach  to   consolidate  and                                                               
catalog.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:03:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG stated that he  did not see any cause of                                                               
action against the entity that  owned the property or against the                                                               
entity  doing   extraction;  however,  he  could   envision  some                                                               
organization  sued in  direct compliance  and under  the immunity                                                               
section could not take action  against the equipment manufacturer                                                               
for indemnification or  third party liability.   He stressed that                                                               
not  only would  the plaintiff  be prevented,  but the  defendant                                                               
would  also  be  prevented  from seeking  reimbursement  for  the                                                               
person who is truly at fault.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR P.  WILSON related her  understanding that his issue  was a                                                               
legal issue separate from the NOA issue.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:04:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE FEIGE referred  to page 3, line 18,  of Version E,                                                               
to  subsection  (a), and  read,  "A  civil  action or  claim  for                                                               
damages  or costs  alleging  as  asbestos-related death,  injury,                                                               
illness,  or  disability  or alleging  asbestos-related  property                                                               
damage...." He  related his understanding  that the intent  is to                                                               
prevent the company using NOA  on projects from being held liable                                                               
if someone  has an asbestos-related  illness.  He  questioned how                                                               
someone  losing   a  thumb  or   other  injury,   resulting  from                                                               
carelessness or  not following a  procedure or the design  of the                                                               
equipment would have  anything to do with asbestos.   He inquired                                                               
as to whether this subsection would address the issue.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:06:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  acknowledged that  Representative Feige                                                               
made an excellent  point, but the term "asbestos  related" is not                                                               
defined.  He said  that a lawyer would try to  make that as broad                                                               
as possible.   He  suggested defining  the term  so that  not all                                                               
asbestos related illnesses  are exempted.  He  related a scenario                                                               
in which  workers must wear  protective masks, but the  masks are                                                               
defectively  manufactured  so  the workers  develop  mesothelioma                                                               
cancer.  He  said he was unsure that immunity  should cover these                                                               
types of  problems.  He  characterized the  bill as a  good bill,                                                               
which could get  delayed due to difficult  policy legal questions                                                               
related to immunity.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR P.  WILSON suggested he  may wish  to work on  the immunity                                                               
issues with Mr. Anderson.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. ANDERSON  mentioned that  the companion bill  to HB  258 also                                                               
has a  referral to the  Senate Judiciary Standing Committee.   He                                                               
stressed that immunity  has been an issue from the  start and the                                                               
sponsor shares his concern.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PRUITT agreed he also shares the concern.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:08:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  FEIGE understood  several types  of asbestos  and                                                               
forms exist,  including long and  short fiber asbestos.   He said                                                               
that one  type causes mesothelioma.   He offered his  belief that                                                               
the  definition of  NOA refers  to different  mineral types.   He                                                               
identified  part of  issue as  the loose  definition of  asbestos                                                               
that  is damaging.    He  asked whether  the  definition for  the                                                               
asbestos  of the  type that  is  problematic to  health could  be                                                               
tightened up.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. ANDERSON responded  that he has held  discussions with DOT&PF                                                               
today  on the  definition of  asbestos and  the sponsor  has been                                                               
considering adding a  second definition for asbestos.   He agreed                                                               
the definitions could be tightened up.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:10:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PETERSEN wondered  if Alaska  is only  place that                                                               
has NOA,  and if  not, how other  states and  municipalities have                                                               
addressed the issue.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR P.  WILSON remarked that  other jurisdictions  already have                                                               
built their roads.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ANDERSON  answered that  California  and  Virginia have  NOA                                                               
programs including  regulations to  monitor use of  any NOA.   He                                                               
recalled that 12 other states  are currently considering adopting                                                               
similar regulations.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:11:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PETERSEN  asked  if  possible to  look  at  other                                                               
legislatures'  models in  terms  of culpability  and perhaps  not                                                               
have to reinvent the wheel.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. ANDERSON  agreed.   He offered that  a substantial  amount of                                                               
the  language in  the bill  comes from  California's regulations.                                                               
He  acknowledged  that  HB  258  contains  an  expanded  immunity                                                               
section.   He pointed out that  Ambler has some gravel  which may                                                               
contain  NOA.   The sponsor  also  encourages the  proper use  of                                                               
gravel containing NOA.   He offered to research  how other states                                                               
handle NOA.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:13:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  said it  would truncate  his questions,                                                               
if  the  bill had  a  House  Judiciary  Committee referral.    He                                                               
related his  understanding that this  bill seems like  good idea,                                                               
but  the  bill raises  issues  not  normally considered  in  this                                                               
committee.  He reiterated that he  did not have problems with the                                                               
concept of the bill.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR P. WILSON agreed that  the liability issues are not usually                                                               
discussed in this committee.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:14:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MUNOZ asked  whether NOA  is in  the dust  in the                                                               
region and for any health issues identified in the community.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. ANDERSON answered  that NOA exists in Ambler,  and gravel has                                                               
been used  in prior  construction projects, but  at the  time the                                                               
projects  were  developed testing  was  not  being conducted  and                                                               
regulations did not exist.  He  offered his belief that since NOA                                                               
exists he assumes NOA also  existed when the projects were built.                                                               
He  referenced  the  public  health  study  Representative  Joule                                                               
mentioned earlier.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:15:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MUNOZ questioned  whether the  changes that  make                                                               
the materials unacceptable were due to federal or state law.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. ANDERSON responded  that he was unsure, but  now that testing                                                               
can be done  and NOA has been discovered in  the communities that                                                               
they are prohibited from using it.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:16:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. NAUMAN  pointed out that  gravel containing NOA can  be used,                                                               
but  it  creates  open  liability for  suits  related  to  people                                                               
contracting  diseases  such as  mesothelioma.    This bill  would                                                               
prevent  that  risk by  foreclosing  the  suit  on the  basis  of                                                               
asbestos related illness.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  P.  WILSON asked  for  clarification  on whether  lawsuits                                                               
would  be  prevented  if everyone  in  the  community  contracted                                                               
mesothelioma.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  NAUMAN offered  her belief  if all  of the  actions were  in                                                               
compliance  with the  permitting requirements  that would  be the                                                               
case.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:17:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ALICE EDWARDS,  Director, Division of Air  Quality, Department of                                                               
Environmental Conservation (DEC0, stated  that the department has                                                               
coordinated with other  agencies and the sponsor on HB  258.  She                                                               
highlighted that  the department's primary  concern is to  try to                                                               
mitigate  any  public  health hazards  which  result  from  being                                                               
exposed  to  the NOA  materials  used  in  these projects.    She                                                               
acknowledged that lots  of NOA exists and has been  used in these                                                               
communities.    The  Department of  Health  and  Social  Services                                                               
(DHSS) has conducted studies and can better address the issues.                                                                 
MS. EDWARDS said  that the primary health impacts  are those from                                                               
exposure to  inhaled asbestos  fibers.   She explained  that when                                                               
asbestos materials are used on  road surfaces, dust is kicked up,                                                               
and people  can inhale it.   She related her  understanding there                                                               
is no  safe level for  contact with  asbestos so people  in these                                                               
communities are  being exposed  to it  from dust  and use  of NOA                                                               
gravel.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:19:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  EDWARDS deferred  to public  health,  but said  she was  not                                                               
aware of any  actual cases of health concerns  that have occurred                                                               
as a  result of  the exposures; however,  impacts that  may occur                                                               
over a lifetime  so some cancers or diseases may  not show up for                                                               
a long time.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR P. WILSON asked how long the community has been there.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. EDWARDS said she did not know.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:20:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR P. WILSON surmised that if  it were harmful that the health                                                               
concerns should have been found in the elderly.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS.  EDWARDS pointed  out that  some populations  are small,  but                                                               
deferred to  DHSS to better  answer exposure risks.   She related                                                               
her  understanding   that  very  small  exposures   can  lead  to                                                               
asbestos-related diseases  as well as  high exposures  for people                                                               
who  have  worked  in  industries   that  have  been  exposed  to                                                               
asbestos-related  materials.   In  response  to  a question,  she                                                               
answered  she believed  there are  differences in  the types  and                                                               
forms of asbestos,  such as short versus long fibers  in terms of                                                               
health risks they pose.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:21:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PETERSEN  related   his  understanding  that  the                                                               
division  has performed  air quality  testing  and has  developed                                                               
baseline data.   He  suggested if  this bill  passed and  NOA was                                                               
used  and  suddenly breathing  problems  or  other health  issues                                                               
arose  that  the  department  would   know  how  much  additional                                                               
asbestos was added.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. EDWARDS agreed air monitoring  was done but she was uncertain                                                               
whether  the division  could detect  changes.   She  acknowledged                                                               
some  baseline  work  has  been   performed,  including  the  EPA                                                               
conducting  air  sampling.    The  DEC has  looked  at  dust  and                                                               
particulate matter  for asbestos and prior  health studies, which                                                               
provide  a  baseline.    However,  she  was  unsure  whether  the                                                               
division  would  be  able  to  distinguish  between  new  or  old                                                               
asbestos sources, and if it would be possible to separate them.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  P.  WILSON remarked  that  the  exposure would  be  higher                                                               
during construction.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:22:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  referred  to   page  2,  lines  11-15,                                                               
related  to  federal  preemption.   He  read,  "...fibers  are  a                                                               
significant  threat...and are  subject  to  close regulations  by                                                               
federal and  state authorities...."   He referred to  the federal                                                               
sites  Clean  Air Act  (CAA)  and  Toxic Substances  Control  Act                                                               
(TSCA).  He related his  understanding that these laws pertain to                                                               
one  issue,  which   is  use  of  materials   containing  NOA  in                                                               
construction  projects.     He  asked  whether   Ms.  Nauman  has                                                               
researched the federal  regulations to the extent  that she could                                                               
answer whether  any constitutional  issues exist with  respect to                                                               
the indirect violations of the  interstate commerce clause or the                                                               
supremacy  clause   due  to  the  close   regulation  by  federal                                                               
authority.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. NAUMAN  offered to  further research this.   She  related her                                                               
understanding is  that the aforementioned acts  refer to asbestos                                                               
which is  not naturally occurring.   She said that  would explain                                                               
the  second clause,  which read  "...use of  materials containing                                                               
naturally  occurring asbestos  in  construction  projects may  be                                                               
regulated by states;".                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG,  assuming she was correct,  inquired as                                                               
to whether  any other federal  regulations that may  be involved.                                                               
He asked to  hear from any of the departments  if they were aware                                                               
of any federal issues.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:26:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. NAUMAN  turned to the  sectional analysis.  She  related that                                                               
Sections 5 and 6 are temporary  provisions to help bridge the gap                                                               
since  this bill  has an  immediate effective  date.   She stated                                                               
that Section 6 outlines the testing method.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:26:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG pointed out that  he serves on a Council                                                               
of  State Governments'  committee on  suggested legislation.   He                                                               
referred to Section 6 of Version E,  to page 10, lines 22-30.  He                                                               
explained  that this  establishes  that until  DOT&PF adopts  the                                                               
method of bulk  testing that the department  shall use California                                                               
Air Resources Board  Method 435 as the basis  for determining the                                                               
asbestos content.   He  was aware  some people  expressed concern                                                               
that  Alaska  may be  deferring  its  regulatory authority.    He                                                               
recalled  that  other  states expressed  similar  concerns.    He                                                               
merely pointed out that the deferral authority is in this bill.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  P.  WILSON  acknowledged  that  this  provision  would  be                                                               
temporary so she said she was not concerned.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:28:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SCOTT JONES, Vice Mayor, City of  Ambler, stated that he has been                                                               
the mayor for  five or six years.   He has lived  in Ambler since                                                               
the  1970s.   He  said he  has  heard so  many  questions on  the                                                               
asbestos  issue today.    He related  his  understanding that  it                                                               
takes 25-40  years for  asbestos to affect  health.   He reported                                                               
that about  20 people  in past 20-25  years have  had respiratory                                                               
issues,  but  these people  did  not  specify whether  they  were                                                               
smokers.   He  pointed out  that  smokers are  80-100 times  more                                                               
susceptible to respiratory problems than anyone exposed to NOA.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. JONES  said he was  involved in  August 2007 with  an airport                                                               
rehabilitation  during which  Nortech Environmental  Engineering,                                                               
Health and Safety (NORTECH) tested  operators and airport workers                                                               
involved  with handling  NOA, but  the results  did not  show any                                                               
significant impact.   He recalled other testing has  been done by                                                               
the Alaska Native Tribal Health  Consortium (ANTHC).  He detailed                                                               
the  monitoring  and  protective measures  taken  during  airport                                                               
rehabilitation.    He reported  that  there  are seven  types  of                                                               
asbestos consisting of short and  long fiber materials.  The long                                                               
fiber asbestos  does not pose  a problem  until it is  crushed or                                                               
ground and becomes  airborne.  He also recalled  comments made by                                                               
one tester  during the mid-1990s that  there was so much  dust in                                                               
Ambler the  equipment could  not get a  reading on  the asbestos.                                                               
He  further  recalled  the  findings  were  that  the  silt  dust                                                               
constituted  more  of a  health  risk  than  NOA.   He  expressed                                                               
concern  over  the committee's  discussions  to  get the  details                                                               
right while nine  people live in 2-bedroom houses in  Ambler.  He                                                               
stated that no hew houses have  been built since the 1990s due to                                                               
the asbestos and requirements of all federal monies.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:33:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. JONES related that Ambler  obtained a special waiver from the                                                               
Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) due  to the dust problem in                                                               
Ambler.   He reported that  it took a coordinated  effort between                                                               
NANA Regional  Corporation, the  DOT&PF, and  Ambler to  make the                                                               
airport project  happen.  He  identified the biggest  problem has                                                               
been a  lack of regulations.   He  said California has  all seven                                                               
types of  asbestos, but has  developed regulations to  allow them                                                               
to use  the material and  mitigate the  dust problems.   He urged                                                               
people  to   adopt  rules,  regulations,  and   procedures.    He                                                               
described  the  worst  of  the dust  occurs  during  June,  July,                                                               
August, and September, but dust is  less of a problem the rest of                                                               
the year and it is not an issue when it rains or snows.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:35:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR P. WILSON asked for the most recent census figures.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. JONES answered the population is 266.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR P. WILSON inquired as to the percentage of smokers.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JONES answered  that smoking  is  still pretty  common.   He                                                               
estimated about 25 percent of the population are smokers.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:36:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR P. WILSON asked if he has ever considered moving.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. JONES answered no.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:36:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG recalled  that  the  14th Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature adopted  statutes related  to removing  asbestos from                                                               
schools,  including  a  training   program.    He  suggested  the                                                               
community  may wish  to  look  at the  training  aspects of  that                                                               
specific program.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. ANDERSON admitted he was not  aware of the statute, will look                                                               
into the program.  He offered to report back to the committee.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  recalled that the program  was not done                                                               
at state expense.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:37:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
UKALLAYSAAQ OKLEASIK,  Planning Director,  City of  Ambler stated                                                               
that Ambler is  a very beautiful community south  of Brooks Range                                                               
and  Noatak  National  Preserve  along   the  Kobuk  River.    He                                                               
characterized it  as a  wonderful place  to live.   Historically,                                                               
the area was identified as an  asbestos resource and in the 1940s                                                               
the  Arctic  Circle  Exploration   Company  mined.    Mining  was                                                               
discontinued during WWII  and due to a decline  in asbestos uses.                                                               
He related  that asbestos is  a high quality  resource associated                                                               
with jade  and two local  mountains are called Jade  and Asbestos                                                               
Mountains.   In 2003, concerns  were raised by the  community and                                                               
the Maniiliq Association  due to the dust.  The  Agency for Toxic                                                               
Substances and  Disease Registry  conducted an  investigation and                                                               
published a report  in 2007 which confirmed NOA was  found in the                                                               
gravel.   The  NWAB  supports  HB 258.    He  explained that  the                                                               
assembly will hear a resolution later  this month.  He said a lot                                                               
is at  stake for  the villages  along the  Kobuk River,  not just                                                               
Ambler,  but  potentially  in  Kobuk   village  with  new  school                                                               
construction  and   NOA  issues.    Other   communities  such  as                                                               
Shungnak, Juneau, and  Fairbanks in Alaska also  have NOA issues.                                                               
He explained that  lots of studies have  been conducted including                                                               
studies  performed by  the DOT&PF  since  2003, which  identified                                                               
problems and recommendations  to use NOA safely.   He referred to                                                               
a  September 2009  Nortech report  that outlined  recommendations                                                               
based on  the experience and  policies of other  states including                                                               
California and Virginia.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:41:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OKLEASIK  stated that  the  issue  is holding  up  community                                                               
development at the airport, road  maintenance, new housing, water                                                               
and sewer.   He pointed out the necessity to  replace gravel just                                                               
to maintain  their system.   He highlighted that beach  and river                                                               
erosion projects have  also been put on hold.   He concluded that                                                               
the community is really suffering  since its infrastructure is on                                                               
hold.  He  offered his belief that the bill  provides a very easy                                                               
solution  to  allow  work  with NOA  and  would  allow  community                                                               
development to happen.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:42:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ELIZABETH  HENSLEY, Corporate  and  Public  Policy Liaison,  NANA                                                               
Regional  Corporation  (NANA),  stated that  NANA  supports  this                                                               
bill.   She explained that about  $10 million in projects  are on                                                               
hold due  to NOA issues, but  the projects need to  move forward.                                                               
She   offered  that   the  Northwest   Arctic  Leadership   Team,                                                               
consisting of leadership of the  Northwest Arctic Borough (NWAB),                                                               
the  NWAB School  District, Maniilaq  Association,  which is  the                                                               
tribal  organization,  and  NANA  all  support  the  bill.    She                                                               
reiterated  that  the  bill  has  widespread  community  support,                                                               
including Ambler.   She reported that NANA is a  large land owner                                                               
in  the  region and  owns  about  38,000 square  miles  including                                                               
gravel resources.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:44:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LANCE MILLER,  Vice President,  NANA Regional  Corporation (NANA)                                                               
stated that the  iron rich rocks have existed for  quite a while.                                                               
He  related that  these rocks  contain various  asbestos minerals                                                               
found  throughout the  Brooks  Range and  Southeast  Alaska.   In                                                               
response to Representative  Feige, he reported that  the NOA type                                                               
is  chrysotile,  which  is  the least  toxic  type  of  asbestos.                                                               
However,  from the  perspective of  the Environmental  Protection                                                               
Agency (EPA), it  doesn't matter since it is an  asbestos form of                                                               
mineral.   He reiterated that  about $10 million in  projects are                                                               
on hold.   He said Ambler  is relatively new village,  but people                                                               
have been up  along the river for upwards of  10,000 years.  Some                                                               
of the highest concentrations of  asbestos are in the gravel bars                                                               
right in front  of Ambler since asbestos is deposited  as part of                                                               
a winnowing  effect.  He recalled  a reference to a  health study                                                               
which  did not  find any  evidence  of mesothelioma.   He  agreed                                                               
exposure presents a  good question, but pointed out  that NOA has                                                               
been around  for a long time  and people have been  breathing it.                                                               
He asked  to have NANA on  record as supporting the  bill to move                                                               
the projects forward.   He emphasized that a  lack of legislation                                                               
presents an issue for landowners.   He acknowledged some critical                                                               
airport emergency issues need to move  forward.  In response to a                                                               
question, he agreed he would be available to answer questions.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
[HB 258 was held over.]                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:48:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
CSHB 271 draft.pdf HTRA 2/21/2012 1:00:00 PM
HB 271
HB 271 Fed Standard CMV.pdf HTRA 2/21/2012 1:00:00 PM
HB 271
HB 271 SPONSOR.pdf HTRA 2/21/2012 1:00:00 PM
HB 271
HB 271 Vehicle classes.pdf HTRA 2/21/2012 1:00:00 PM
HB 271
HB0271A.pdf HTRA 2/21/2012 1:00:00 PM
HB 271
HB271-DOA-DMV-2-17-12.pdf HTRA 2/21/2012 1:00:00 PM
HB 271
HB0270A.pdf HTRA 2/21/2012 1:00:00 PM
HB 270
HB 270- Sponsor Statement.pdf HTRA 2/21/2012 1:00:00 PM
HB 270
HB 270- Sectional Analysis.pdf HTRA 2/21/2012 1:00:00 PM
HB 270
HB 270 Changes in Airport Passenger Screening.pdf HTRA 2/21/2012 1:00:00 PM
HB 270
HB 258 vB.pdf HTRA 2/21/2012 1:00:00 PM
HTRA 3/1/2012 1:00:00 PM
HB 258
HB 258 INE study.pdf HTRA 2/21/2012 1:00:00 PM
HTRA 3/1/2012 1:00:00 PM
HB 258
HB258-DEC-AQ-02-16-12 Naturally Occurring Asbestos Fiscal Notes.msg HTRA 2/21/2012 1:00:00 PM
HTRA 3/1/2012 1:00:00 PM
HB 258
HB258-DHSS-EPI-02-17-12.pdf HTRA 2/21/2012 1:00:00 PM
HTRA 3/1/2012 1:00:00 PM
HB 258
HB258-DOLWD-LSS-2-17-12.pdf HTRA 2/21/2012 1:00:00 PM
HTRA 3/1/2012 1:00:00 PM
HB 258
HB258 Sponsor Stmt.pdf HTRA 2/21/2012 1:00:00 PM
HB 258
Hb 271 Ak Truck support.pdf HTRA 2/21/2012 1:00:00 PM
HB 271
HB 271 NFIB Support.pdf HTRA 2/21/2012 1:00:00 PM
HB 271
Hb 271 Norcom Operations.pdf HTRA 2/21/2012 1:00:00 PM
HB 271
HB271 AGC Letter.pdf HTRA 2/21/2012 1:00:00 PM
HB 271
HB 258 CS Sectional Ver E.pdf HTRA 2/21/2012 1:00:00 PM
HB 258
HB 258 CS Sectional Ver E.pdf HTRA 2/21/2012 1:00:00 PM
HB 258